Interview by Andrea Bedetti on Musicvoice – Ingrid Carbone between the rigor of mathematics and the free expression of music
May 9, 2024

Read the full interview (in italian) here>>

We interviewed the established Calabrian pianist, who shares a passion for the world of sounds with that of numbers (she is a professor at the University of Calabria). His answers represent a passionate and sincere reflection on the dilemmas, doubts and possible answers of those who, in the name of art and science, live and research between reason and feeling.

Maestro Carbone, what were the existential and cultural motivations and drives thanks to which you became a concert pianist? And, more generally, in your opinion is there a kind of “recipe” starting from which this becoming something in the artistic field can be valid for many?

If I said that the piano is my life, I would be trivial; if I said that I can’t help but think of the piano as if it were an extension of my body, I would be a little predictable. However, without these two preliminary reflections, as obvious as they seem, I would never have become a concert pianist. And yet they are not enough to explain my path and my choices. Wanting to use mathematical language, I would say that they are necessary conditions, but not sufficient. If we talk about a “recipe”, I can undoubtedly list the “ingredients”, some of which are general, others very personal. The general ones, which are valid for every musician and which constitute – once again using a mathematical expression – the greatest common denominator, are patience, constancy, discipline, humility. The general ones, however, are linked to the first part of your question, as complex as the answer I am now trying to summarize.

Playing in public (or rather, for the public) means transmitting my emotions, my moods, telling a story: everything comes after months and months of study and research, after careful reading of the score and above all at the end of a path through which I represent (and I hope to do so in the best possible way) the will of the composer. Every time it is a challenge, a bet, which fuels my desire to communicate to the public everything I know and everything I am. This is why, even more than concerts, I love holding what I call concert conversations, in which I talk to the audience and look at them, and it is as if I enter into harmony with those who listen to me. I need sharing, empathy. On the other hand, I am also a solitary animal, who loves to spend hours and hours working, studying, meditating, researching. I always need new challenges, to try my hand at new songs, even if never chosen at random, to enrich a musical and extra-musical culture that I always consider insufficient. The public-private duality is present in me in a completely evident way. I am who I am because I know who I am and I know where I am.

Your dual activity as a musician and mathematics (I remember that he is a professor of this subject at the University of Calabria) inevitably leads to a question that arises from the famous Leibnizian statement, namely whether it is true that Exercitium arithmeticae occultum nescientis if numerare animi, is valid to say that “[music] is an arithmetic calculation that the soul makes without knowing that it is counting”, in his specific case the opposite is true, that is, that music can determine new fields of research in mathematics. In light of this, has your making music allowed you to broaden the field of knowledge inherent to numbers?

Taking your question literally, I don’t think my music has really broadened my mathematical knowledge. At the same time, however, I believe that my artistic flair (also necessary, but not sufficient!) is increasingly broadening my didactic and pedagogical skills: my mathematics lessons, in recent times, have changed because they have become enriched of a good dose of improvisation and imagination. What is certainly true, however, is that my music benefits greatly from my university education, and from my teaching and research activities. My concert conversations are an example of this.

Let’s now look at the other side of the coin. What should be done, when sitting in front of the piano keyboard, to avoid the trap of transforming the succession of musical signs into a series of numerical representations? How do you stay away from the trap of making music while thinking about mathematics? This may be easier for a musician who, contrary to what you do, is not inclined to think in mathematical terms… Well, how do you avoid that pernicious thing too? Or, is it based on what Xenakis wrote in the preface of his fundamental essay Formalized Music, that is to say that the effort to make art passes through a “geometric process”?

Mathematics is always present in classical music, otherwise the rhythm, the tempo, the binary-ternary, the small groups of a number of notes that are not multiples of anything, the solfeggio, would be devoid of that precision which cannot be ignored. And this too is obvious. But if I say that the mathematical research method and seminar activities (meaning not only seminars, but communications and conferences) have influenced my music, perhaps it is not really so obvious. I’ll give the example of a theorem and its demonstration: it is placed in a scientific and therefore historical context, what precedes it is known, and its demonstration follows a clear, linear path, where nothing is superfluous and everything is necessary. No step too many, no less. This is how a composition is for me: a journey in which every phrase, every voice, every note, every pause is essential, where there is nothing marginal. And so, to arrive at what I believe is the final interpretation (for what this term means in the artistic field, where the word “end” never exists, fortunately), everything must take on a meaning, and I have no peace until I find an explanation for everything that is written. In this world, there is a mathematical method of study and investigation, which becomes a tool of understanding, a magnifying glass, I would almost say a microscope. Then comes the art: the touch, the timbre, the pedals, the agogics, the dynamics, and above all listening and singing. Listening to what I play, how I play it, challenging the piano to return sounds, colors, moods, making it sing.

Soon, she will have the opportunity to return to “her” Liszt, with whom she has already worked in the recording field, with a new album dedicated to the complete recording of Schubert’s twelve Lieder transcribed by the Hungarian composer and which are part of the opus S. 558. Therefore, he abandons the Lisztian religious-spiritual side to face, instead, the very heart of Germanic romanticism, of which these pages represent a milestone. Why this choice? And from here, the inevitable question that may arise: does the mathematician Ingrid Carbone feel fascinated and involved by a metaphysical inspiration? And what relationship do you have, personally, with the religious dimension?

Two of my albums are dedicated to Liszt, one to Schubert. It seems completely natural to me to continue with Schubert-Liszt, but not out of a simple intellectual need, but because I believe that Liszt’s masterful transcriptions of Schubert’s masterpieces represent the most beautiful pages of romanticism. This is the greatest challenge that I have decided to face so far: Schubert’s Lieder are already complex compositions, often arduous for singers and pianists, but in Liszt’s hands they become a world in themselves, pages of a transcendental pianism, in which the sound planes they must be so distinct and different that they require painstaking work. Here, more than ever, technique becomes the servant of music: for me it must always be like this, and Schubert’s and Liszt’s music are excellent examples of this, even more so Liszt’s transcriptions.

I have addressed and often address, both in my recordings and in the repertoire pieces, many spiritual, religious pieces, pieces such as Les Jeux d’Eaux à la Villa d’Este, which is profoundly religious, even if I do not explicitly declare it. I choose them, and evidently I am attracted to them. If we want to frame it, my dimension is without a shadow of a doubt spiritual rather than religious. I am far from any religious fanaticism, as well as from any “pre-march” ideology: we are seeing its devastating effects in Palestine and Ukraine, and for me it is an immense pain. I often think about the history of China, and the fact (which is incredible for us Westerners) that there has never been a religious war there. There are philosophies of life, peaceful, respectful of each other, without crusades and proselytism.

One last question. We talked about the musician Ingrid Carbone, the mathematician and the one who overlooks the eschatological mystery. But who is Ingrid Carbone woman?

A mixture of security and fragility and a concentration of sensitivity. I can feel the grass growing, as my husband says, translating a Slovenian saying. I blush for a compliment, I get emotional just listening to the birds chirping. A dear friend says I’m vain. Maybe it’s true, because I like to underline my femininity. I love teaching, and I wait for the end of the course to go and celebrate passing the exam with my students. I am always available, ready to help and give advice. I don’t have children, but I surround myself with little animals that I take from the street, souls in pain destined for certain death. I suffer from the wickedness of men, I am indignant at unfairness, I get irritated at rudeness, I expose myself against injustices. I have difficulty tolerating the rampant chauvinism and recurring misogyny. I am a free woman, without preconceptions and prejudices, and I do not accept interference and limitations of any kind. I’m solid, I always challenge myself and I never choose the easy path. Today more than ever I feel like an “anthropologist on Mars”, to quote Oliver Sacks: I don’t feel at ease in this barbaric country, I don’t feel at ease in this cynical and cruel world. If I had lived in the Middle Ages, they would have burned me at the stake.

Subscribe to my Newsletter

Subscribe to my Newsletter

Join my mailing list to receive the latest news and updates about my music.

You have Successfully Subscribed!